Metz Mecablitz 60 CT1, добавляем ручной режим

[johnvpr]

Metz Mecablitz 60 CT1 manual conversion hack

Hi to all,
I am triyng to add to Metz 60CT1 manual control and following power reduction:
Full , 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, 1/32, 1/64
On 45CT series you need to replace lightsensor with this resistors: 2,2M, 56K, 22K, 15K , 10K , 5K6, 3K9
https://impulsite.ru/ctlg/metz/45ct1/me ... t1.pdf.zip
I am not too good in electronics, but I have tried whit this resistors on my 60CT1 but it fires allways full power



This is the light sensor, meaby I need some other components? Anyone know where to get metz schematics :-)
Привет!
--
Привет всем,
Я пытаюсь добавить в Metz 60CT1 ручное управление мощности: полная , 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, 1/32, 1/64 мощность
На серии 45CT требуется заменить фотодатчик резисторами: 2,2 М, 56к, 22к, 15к , 10к , 5к6, 3к9
https://impulsite.ru/ctlg/metz/45ct1/me ... t1.pdf.zip
Я не слишком силён в электронике, но я попробовал в моём 60CT1 заменить фотодатчик резисторами, вспышка срабатывает всегда на полную мощность.
Это фотодатчик, может быть мне нужны какие-то другие компоненты?
Кто-нибудь знает, где взять схемы Metz?
Привет!

[Impulsite]

Hello, johnvpr!

this is the light sensor?

Yes, it is.

I have not schematics for this Metz. If the speedlite is fault-free, for modification is needed only replace the photodiode.
As I understood, the Metz uses lightsensor only in Automatic Mode (Der Automatik-Blitzbetrieb - in germany Users Manual).
For the first, test your Metz in Automatic Mode with correctly connected lightsensor. If speedlite controls light output as should, so replace sensor with variable resistors (potentiometer) and try to regulate light output using Automatic Mode, not Manual Mode. Also when you select on flash calculator appropriate diaphragm number, light output should change.
Automatic Mode works very similar on all flashes with such Mode. Hope, schematic Unomat B24TAC and my explanation how flash regulates light output in Automatic Mode and schema to replace lightsensor will help to understand how it works. See here. The similar schematic here: Olympus T20.

johnvpr, do you understand Russian? Let us know about your experiments.
--

Здравствуйте, johnvpr!

Это фотодатчик?

Да, это так.

У меня нет схемы на этот Метц. Если вспышка исправна, то достаточно только заменить фотоприёмник. Как я понимаю, Метц использует фотоприемник только в Автоматическом режиме (Der Automatik-Blitzbetrieb - по-немецки).
В первую очередь, проверьте вашу вспышку в автоматическом режиме с правильно подключенным фотоприемником. Если вспышка регулирует свет, как должна, то замените фотодиод переменным сопротивлением (потенциометром) и пробуйте регулировать мощность вспышки, используя автоматический режим, а не ручной режим. Также, при изменении диафрагмы на калькуляторе вспышки должна меняться интенсивность света от вспышки.
Автоматический режим работает очень похоже на всех вспышках, имеющих такой режим. Надеюсь, мои пояснения, как вспышка регулирует энергию импульса и схема по замене фотодатчика, помогут понять, как работает автоматический режим. Ссылки здесь. Подобная схема здесь: Olympus T20
Держите нас в курсе своих экспериментов.

[johnvpr]

Hi, impulsite!
glad to meet you, I speek English, Italian and a little polish, sorry no Russian , my wife studied 7 years Russian, but she forgot most of it
Yes it works fine with photodiode but as I replace it whit any resistor it fire allways full power!!!!
i've tried to add a diode but nothing changes allways full power

John

--
Привет, impulsite!
рад знакомству, я говорю по-английски, по-итальянски и немного по-польски, извините, не по-русски , моя жена 7 лет учила русский, но она забыла почти всё.
Да, вспышка отлично работает с фотодиодом, но когда я заменяю его на любой резистор, вспышка стреляет на полную мощность!!!!
я попытался добавить диод, но ничего не изменилось, всегда на полную мощность

Джон

[Impulsite]

Hope, You understood my poor English. Google language tools helps us to discuss.

This device looks like photodiode. Probe it, please, with Ohmmeter in dark area. This device is photodiode, if: in one direction, from anode to kathode, the resistance about hundreds Ohm and not change when device illuminated. Tests like usual rectifier diode. In other direction, from kathode to anode, resistance is over hundreds kiloOhm or about MegaOhm and when photodiode illuminated, the resistance varies with amount of luminosity.
There are also phototransistors, in the same shape, but usually they have in both direction very large resistance, when darkened. I test on "2k"-range of Ohmmeter or "diode probe" on multimeter.

but nothing changes allways full power

Answer, please. Is the indicator window (fig. 3 User Manuals) set for one of the “C” auto apertures?
Suppose, for test preferable C=2 оr C=2,8 program.
You may even shorten the wires of photosensor, so the speedlite should make very weak impulse.

[johnvpr]

thanks google!!!
yes, it measures 330 ohm always in one direction and varies from 200(dark) to -400 under a normal light, strange about the minus (-) on my multimeter!
yes i've tested on C=2 / 2,8
yes shorted wire, and open wire gives allways full power flash

[Impulsite]

strange about the minus (-) on my multimeter!

it is not strange. You have realy photodiode and like a solar cell, when it is well illuminated, photodiode generates a voltage which can be measured, on sunlight up to 0,5-0,7 Volts.

Strange that light output is not change. If in normal use Metz 60 works well, gives full output when photocell frame closed by opaque thing (or by hand) and much more weak impulse when flash directed on near white wall, but, as you say, gives full output with shorted wire, so its circuitry differ from one in Metz 45. Very strange.

Do you make the remote cable as described in PDF ? May be there is not good connection in cable or on boards?
How works the flash, when on remote cable you solder its photodiode instead of resistor? When photodiode is right connected and open for flash light, so flash should cuts the impulse. And when photodiode fully closed by opaque material the flash output should be full or near by full. Should work as in normal use.

Can you make pictures of photodiode board and it area and connections with other parts of speedlite ?

[johnvpr]

the 60ct1 photodiode board don't have components (the 45ct have 1 resistor).
the flash works fine with the photodiode mounted, i can see low flashes.
you think I can try to replace the photodiode with a resistor and diode to simulate the photodiode?

John

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плата фотодиода 60ct1 не имеет компонентов (45ct имеет 1 резистор).
вспышка отлично работает с установленным фотодиодом, я могу видеть слабые вспышки.
вы думаете, я могу попытаться заменить фотодиод резистором и диодом для имитации фотодиода?

Джон

[Impulsite]

Diode in series with resistor? May be. Must try. I have not any ideas now. Tomorrow I will study the Metz 40 schematic, how there made the photosensor circuitry. Bye.

--
Диод последовательно с резистором? Может быть. Можно попробовать. У меня сейчас нет никаких идей. Завтра я изучу схему Metz 40, как там сделана схема фотодатчика. Пока.

[Steve]

Hi,
today I opend a 60 and a 45 Metz and pulled out my multimeter.
(Pictures will be added later)
But first, the resistor on the 45 PCB seems to act as a drop down resistor for the Opto-Transistor (Type BP101 III), just to set the voltage. It has 560 Ohm... So nothing serious...
The Metz 60 has a typical Photodiode, unfortunately there is no type printed on it, but it looks like a SFH206K or PDB-C157 Type. But I'm sure there are a lot of different other types, too...
Much more interesting are the Ohm vs. light graphs...

Light   Metz45   Metz60
---------------------------
Dark   o.o.r      o.o.r
weak   19.??k    19.??k
bright 2.29k     -4.99k

o.o.r. = out of range
So, the task should be finding a solution how to imitate the graph of this Photodiode, maybe to work with the "black box" done by stockware.nl...

Perhaps an Op-Amp could serve this task???
I have no idea how to reproduce these negative ohm load?!? But an OP-Amp should be able to do that... By the way, we have 6V DC right from the 3-Pin connector
Inside the 60ct1 we have a lot of space for additional parts and/or PCB's


I did a small comparisation chart...

Some values are interpolated - not actual measurements...!!!
Max value for 60ct1 is taken from john. Max value from 45ct1 goes far above 2M Ohm, so I took a lower value to show the stop...



???? Perhaps we could estimate some values to use it maual until 1/32. But for such a powerfull flash few more steps until 1/250 should be available.... ???? Am I right...????
bye
Steve

[Impulsite]

Hi, Stive!
The multimeter shows negative resistance because the photodiod produces voltage under high illumination.
Of course, we can work with Metz 60 as the "black box", but I suppose we faster find the solution, if discover, how the photodiod of Metz 60 is used in exposure meter schematic. For example, in Metz 40 the photodiod PW34, supplied with 24 V via resistor 1 kOhm to cathode, connected by its anode to input of dual comparator TS3702. The schematic I will add later. When capacitor on comparators input charged enough by current via the photodiod, comparator switches its output and the processor interrupts the flash impulse. The current via the photodoid is depend from illumination. Probably, in Metz 45 is the same circuitry.

And instead the photodiod we can use the variable resistor, as used in http://www.stokware.nl/metzmod45ct1.pdf.

the schematic of Metz 60 may differ. Please compare how photodiods associated in circuits of both flashes. May be picture the PCB or draw the schemas around the photodiods.

[Steve]

Hi,
the Problem seems to be solved

I stripped down everything and started to follow the signals...

Conclusion:
EVERYTHING runs thru the Computer...!!!

Great thing, because everything is done by a variation of the Ohm...



If you select one of the 5 Computer "modes" it selects an specific resistor which is in series with a Potentiometer and also in series with the Photodiode.

Even it selects an specific resistor if you go to manual mode, but doesn't take the Photodiode into count



Here you'll se the switch on the right side, which is used to select between the Modes. The pot is hidden below the PCB, just connected with wires...

Now I have to ask myself - where the hell is the problem...????
The f-stop slide is our Potentiometer....!!!
Just switch the left slide (and also on the top dial) to "M" and select with the f-stops-slide the power and done
Why haven't they put that into the owners-manual?
Btw. the top dial, is mostly unconnected, only the outer ring has a connection, there you could select between W(inder) and MD. All the other scales up there aren't connected..!!!!


If you want to have an external control box

you first have to remove the small PCB which is bolted on the large one:


Here you are, now identify the connection of the Potentiometer:


Cut these and replace it with the wires of your "new" black box...



or if you want to have it done with a potentiometer, then use this design:


Well, I'll do a small mod only:
1.take a piece of paper
2.Note the power levels on it
3. glue it onto the ASA scale
4. be happy

By the way, I have the pictures of the Photo-Sensors of the 45 and the 60 series here... Someone wants to have them posted in here????

bye
Steve

[Impulsite]

Great! I haven't even hope, that is so easy!

Someone wants to have them posted in here????

Of course! You may open new topic, special for the pictures of Metz 45.

[Steve]

Sometimes we have luck

You may open new topic, special for the pictures of Metz 45.

Well, I have a 45CT1 and a 45CL-1 here. Both should get a complete conversion... In that case I'll make a small photo story out of that task...

Conversion on the CT1 should include:
- Full manual power setting (along with the stockware mod)
- reducing the sync-voltage
- modify a used accu-pack to use new cells
- modify a battery pack for use with accu-cells

Conversion on the CL1 should include:
- building some kind of generator box:
- battery pack (D-Cells) with charger and led control
- mecamat type power controller
- safe-sync mod
- wireless receiver

hope to have some spare time this month...

Steve

[Impulsite]

Good! Interesting!
One of my friends interested to power his Metz 45 from SLA 7,2 A-h, 12 V. And he asks me how to make step-down DC-DC. In his case I suppose is efficiently to use power buster, like 'External Flash Battery Pack for Canon (CP-E4)' or similar, which takes 8 AA akks or 12 V battery, to charge the main capacitor directly via Power Pack terminal.
Did you test other power sourse instead Metz Power Pack P 76 ?
--
Хорошо! Интересно!
Один из моих друзей заинтересован в питании Metz 45 свинцовым аккумулятором 7,2 Ач, 12 В. И он спрашивает меня, как сделать понижающий DC-DC. В его случае, я полагаю, эффективно использовать для зарядки основного конденсатора непосредственно через разъём внешний блок питания, такой как 'External Flash Battery Pack for Canon (CP-E4)' или аналогичный, который работает от 8 AA аккумуляторов или от 12 В аккумулятора.
Вы проверяли другой источник питания вместо Metz Power Pack P 76?

[Steve]

Did you test other power sourse instead Metz Power Pack P76

I had tried to build up an AC-Power Source similar to the Metz N22.
This serves 350V @ 10mA which will go direct into the capacitor...

But since several months I use a "wall-mart" type and interface the Battery Pins on the Flash:
Tested both versions: 7,2V and 9V both at 1A and 1,5A...
Good performance at 7,2V 1,5A configuration, but it seems to be better for the Flash to run it only at 1A...

I'll post a schematic and PCB layout, as soon as it is done because it will be added as a benefit to the generator box for the 45CL1

--------------------------------------------------------------------

I ran my 60 series Metz direct out of an Lead Accumulator => little slower than NiMH and Dryfit

--------------------------------------------------------------------

45 series also ran out of an Lead-accumulator, 12V stepping down via L7809 or LM317 types for 7,2V

[barlangasz]

С уважением к каждому
Преобразователи, улучшение Metz 60CT-1 вспышки высоко, и мне нужно иметь чертеж установки.
Прошу, если кто-то может, мне помочь, я был бы очень признателен.
Rajka Géza

[Impulsite]

Здравствуйте, barlangasz!
К сожалению, схемы на эту вспышку пока нет. Какая у вас проблема? Может быть её можно решить и без схемы?

[Рубен]

Здравствуйте!
По ссылке несколько снимков начинки 60ct-4.
https://yadi.sk/d/ZWI2-Q-G3WBkuU

[Impulsite]

Рубен, спасибо. А по какой причине пришлось открывать? И, если требуется ремонт, надеюсь, не затруднит фотографировать по ходу дела?

[Рубен]

Причина смешная - у молотка не было видно ISO. Каким-то образом диск был повернут на 180 градусов. Диск на место поставил. А так совсем новая и рабочая. Снимки еще будут.